The Mystery: Helen Lorraine Allison & Helen Lorraine Kramer

[Debrina Woods]

As a last note to ALL with an open mind and supportive of the truth we are seeking....

Yes, we have the answers to my grandmothers (always known to us) "Child Bride" status and more which back in the day was not as unheard of as today. And does NOT in any way invalidate her claim. So she had three husbands...I know for a fact that ALL adored her. I knew two of them of course as grandfathers and all was very amicable between the families until death.
All who knew her loved her she was gracious, glamorous and fun and very caring...and a FABULOUS Cook!
Catnip to the men in her life! haha again, ALL will be answered and disclosed once we publish after the DNA determination. My Best wishes to all
FYI: NEW Photos and Newspaper clippings from the day have been posted at:
www.titanicslastmystery.com

[David Smith]

Hi Debrina,
Great web site. I went there when you click on the newspaper articles, you can't read them. Almost but they are very grainy. Is there a way to put them up at just a little higher resolution? Not to bug you but any word when you will hear about the DNA?
Thank you,
Dave

[David Smith]

I didn't see the note to email you Debrina. I was able to read the clippings, although a bit hard on the eyes. Interesting going back in history.
Thank you,
Dave

[Thomas Golembiewski]

John Knight is acting as an irrate 15-year-old . . .

Debrina doesn't have to respond to Hazel McCully, John Knight, or anybody else . . .

Debrina had nothing to do with what happened in 1940 . . .

She's been wonderful in reporting all this to THS . . . I discovered the Chicago Tribune article on Mrs. Kramer over 10 years ago, and as time has passed I wondered what became of the whole thing . . . well, Debrina has been kind enought to let all of us know . . . she wants this to be resolved as do the rest of us . . . and it was so nice of her to come onboard THS and inform us about this intriguing story . . . good!

Mrs. Kramer having been a "child bride", though not unheard of, does lend a most bizarre aspect to this already most bizarre tale. . . but, as Debrina has posted, let us wait for the DNA results . . . if negative, all right, then who was the Bounine (Yul Brynner in the film Anastasia), that brought this all about? . . . clearly Mrs. Kramer just didn't come out of the fog to announce she's Loraine Allison, what took place that propelled her forward? There must be much more to this narrative . . . and Debrina has been letting us know . . .

Someone had the nerve to accuse Debrina of trying to make money off this . . . well, I have a surprise for everyone . . . this centennial year it seems everybody and their cousin is jumping on the Titanic bandwagon---I myself can't believe the number of books being published, it's endless, on and on, one can't barely keep track of it all, and not just that, myriad documentaries, re-hashed films in the splendor of 3-D, made-for-TV mini-series, and we can throw in the countless cruises taking place, and tour guides for various Titanic sites and memorials . . . . Debrina should write a book!

Why some posters get belligerent, even vicious over this is beyond me . . . simmer down, let Debrina proceed, she's been informing all of us of recent developments . . . right now it's thehottest thing going in Titanica . . . .

Debrina, continue the good work you're doing . . . and please let us know of any new things that come about . . .

Best Wishes,
Thomas

__________________________________

[David Smith]

Well said Thomas,

Thank you for the great story Debrina,

Dave

[David Smith]

Would anyone care to comment on this?

I found the newspaper articles on Debrina’s web site quite fascinating. Recognizing the accuracy of newspapers can be questionable at best, Lorraine Allison Kramer is quoted from the article as saying:

“Alien Registration Reveals Transfer of child on Titanic”
Real Father Gave Name as H. J. Allison
“He then told me that back in 1912 he was a passenger on the Titanic. He said a man came up to him and put a little girl 3 or4 in his arms asking him to take care of this little girl, and that his name was H. J. Allison of Pennsylvania, and that the little girl’s name was Lorraine Allison. He then, because of the little girl in his arms, was quickly hustled into a lifeboat, then rescued by the Carpathia. Then when he did not see the man on the Carpathia he thought him lost.
“After he lost his own wife and little girl, he decided to just say I am his little girl and so he did and I believed him to be my father until he wrote and told me he was not. All he knows is that my name was Lorraine Allison. That’s all H. J. Allison told him on the deck, just to save his little girl……

Does that not narrow down who this man could be?
How many couples along with one little girl boarded?
How many families that boarded as three, and survived as two, composed of one man and one female child, survived on the Carpathia?

Does this not narrow the search down? I know, just wait for the DNA!

Dave

[Debrina Woods]

David,
Please read the "STORY Summary" (pdf) on my About Us Page at the web site.... www.titanicslastmystery.com your questions as much as they can be now, (pre publication) can be answered there.

Also at the updated WIKIPEDIA site (Allison Family). ALL DETAILS and I mean ALL will be disclosed when I publish. FYI:

Key members of the Titanic Community have been invited to come to see my documentation to put to rest the lingering doubts and CRAZY (come'on) Speculations, as to some of my claims, that with the soon to be recieved DNA results, will allow for the truth to finally be made clear.
Thank you and all for your passion and interest which should, I ASSURE YOU, be well satisfied when I publish.

Thank you THS for this Blog experience to share with you all this journey through time and unusual circumstance.
Sincerely and Goodbye
Debrina Woods/Last Blog Post May/2012

[Thomas Golembiewski]

Thanks, Dave . . . much appreciated . . .

And your contribution to all this is most welcome . . .

Debrina . . . do write a book . . . it'll be most intriguing reading . . . keep up the good work . . . and keep posting anything else you think will help enlighten the situation . . .

And it's about time this is all getting resolved . . .

[David Smith]

Thanks Debrina,

I have read the pdf file your web site. BTW it is a very nice design. In the pdf file there are many quotes with no references. The account in the pdf file is very different that the actual quote in the Washington paper. The account in the Washington paper is your actual Grandmother words at the time. As I mentioned, newspapers are sometimes not accurate. However, if we take her word at the time, the search is incredibly reduced down to a “family of three that boarded” How many families of three boarded the Titanic? I wouldn’t have a clue but there are enough historians that I’m sure do. So then your Grandmother says this man that lost his wife and small child and took your Grandmother and raised her. This man would be Andrews correct? So Andrews was on the Titanic the night it sank? I think. Did Andrews loose his wife and small child in the sinking?

Dave

[Debrina Woods]

Dave The Newspapers DID NOT all get it right (shock right, I consider them entertainment more than factual accontings) Anyway, the The Radio Transcript was from The principles involved and is an exact and factual enough accounting to have been part of the body of evidence that was going to be presented to the Canadian Courts.

I suggest to relax and simply wait for the answers that I ALREADY HAVE TO ALL OF THIS to be made public when we publish...

TRUST ME, None of you can even begin to imagine the Truth it is so much stranger than fiction...
and all I can say is you have gone off on a way inccorrect assumption across the board on that that posting.

I cannot continue to be a presence here for many reasons now. So, This Blog and posting as far as my participation is closed now. NO ONE esle in the world has the access to the information I do beacuse it was stored away for 70+ years and NEVER WAS IN THE PUBLIC domaine. The answers are held in the private and personal documents and corresponce from all the principles of the day...and will be made public when I publish.

[David Smith]

Ok Debrina, Thank makes sense. I didn't mean to pri. I won't ask anymore questions. Thanks again, Dave

[Thomas Golembiewski]

As far as I know there was no male passenger who survived while his wife and child perished---not on Titanic, perhaps another vessel . . . ?

Ernest Person (he's the one who claimed Mrs. Astor saved him when she insisted they lift him from the frigid waters into lifeboat no. 4), coming from Sweden to Indiana Harbor, Indiana, was with his sister and her children--they perished, he survived; that's the only family grouping I can think of whereby the male survived and the female and children perished (and he certainly didn't return home with a child anywhere about).

Of course, there is that matter of Augusta Valentine, listed as having been a survivor of Titanic, and whose name duly appears on the Carpathia list--who was she? Mrs. Beavis discusses this matter in her wonderful book on the Titanic passenger lists . . . she also goes into some details on how the purser aboard Carpathia put the list of survivors together (yes, but could someone who survived the sinking may not have turned in the requisite form to the purser---someone, maybe, with a small child?) . . .

Yes, there are things to ponder here . . . one could work out various combinations, yes . . . most intriguing all this . . . most . . .

[Jim Keller]

could someone who survived the sinking may not have turned in the requisite form to the purser---someone, maybe, with a small child?

I've often thought it would be fascinating to get the original negatives of the photos shot from Carpathia of the lifeboats in the water and enlarge them to life size, and then count heads. It would be interesting to see if the number of heads matches the official number of people in each boat. Because, yes, I find it very plausible that someone grieving the loss of their entire family would opt not to be listed among the survivors.

But this is research for someone with better access to materials than I...

[David Smith]

I wonder how many photos were taken when the Carpathia landed in NY. There must have been many. I found this very interesting video of the Titanic and Carpatihia.

[urlhttp://ptrait.com/videos/1/2/authentic-titanic-and-carpathia][/url]

Dave

[Jim Keller]

Unfortunately, most (if not all) of that "authentic" Titanic footage is actually Olympic. The white streaks in some of the footage are where identifying characteristics (such as tugboat names, ship nameplates, etc.) were deliberately scratched out so no one would notice. Captain Smith would never have worn summer whites on Titanic. No film footage of passengers on board for the maiden voyage made it off the ship (only a few still photographs from a passenger who disembarked before the trans-Atlantic portion of the ship). Unfortunately, newsreel producers in 1912 weren't trained in today's standards of journalistic integrity.

(Oh, and your link is currently munged. I had to copy and paste the URL out.)

I sincerely doubt there are any photographs of passengers disembarking Carpathia, because film stocks in 1912 required a lot of light, and the ship docked after dark (and in the rain). I believe there's footage of the ship pulling into harbor, before sunset of course, but I'm not sure how useful such footage would be to trying to work out who was or was not on board...

[David Smith]

Jim,

Thank yor for pointing that out. It just shows how careful one must be in assuming anything, I'm not sure what happened with the link.

Dave

[Thomas Golembiewski]

Photography, as well as filming, were quite advanced by 1912---it had decades to develope---this wasn't as if it were Abraham Lincoln days---check the New York Times, they had very clear night photos of people congregated at the pier, filming techniques had also come a long way by 1912, on the cusp of feature length films . . . I believe there is a treasure trove of photographic and filmic materials we have yet to see . . .

[Jim Keller]

You know, you prompted me to do some digging, and the night shots of the crowd are significantly clearer than I had remembered them being. My brain had the people motion blurred, but in fact that's only true for a small percentage of them in the ones I found online. And I also spotted a few images of disembarking passengers, which are also quite clear despite the rear-curtain effect caused by the flash. So, yes, I now concur that it would be fascinating to track down as many of those images as possible and see who can be identified.

[Joshua Noble]

Hey, I was wondering if there's any update on the DNA tests.

[Thomas Golembiewski]

Yes, I too was wondering about all that . . . wonder what could possibly be the delay? It'll soon be July, and we were all told sometime in June . . . well . . .