Gigantic

Re: Gigantic

Postby Tom McCluskie on Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:44 am

If it is of any assistance in all my years as Archive Manager in H & W I can confirm I never saw any official reference to the name Gigantic being used or proposed for the third of the Olympic class vessels. In any event the name of the vessel would be of only passing interest to us as the vessel number, in this case 433, would be the principal identifier.
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Re: Gigantic

Postby Simon Mills on Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:00 pm

Tyler:

While I am quite happy to acknowledge that John Maxtone-Graham is a very fine writer and researcher, I would caution you against describing his work (or indeed anyone else's) as "law." If you have read The Only Way to Cross then you will quite clearly see that while the book does make reference to the Gigantic story, John Maxtone-Graham actually went so far as to describe the story as "apocryphal." In other words, of questionable authenticity...

Having examined the available Harland and Wolff documentation, not to mention Tom's earlier post on the matter, there is no doubt in my mind that the contemporary press references to the name Gigantic were little more than idle speculation and rumour. The White Star Line may have had a few problems after the sinking of the Titanic, but the nomenclature of their third Olympic class liner, which had been named Britannic six months before Titanic set out on her maiden voyage, certainly wasn't one of them. The bottom line is that there was no cover up because the name of the ship had already been chosen.

All of the above is backed up by research through source documents at Belfast.

SM.
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Re: Gigantic

Postby Tyler J Frederick on Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:11 pm

Sir Simon,
I really think I should read your book, whatever its call. But with all due respect, I stand by Maxtone-Graham. I do have The Only Way To Cross. Haven't read in years though. The reason being that I have so many books are ship. Almost 200 of them are about either Titanic, Lusitania, Queen Mary, Andrea Doria, & Ocean Liners in general. However, I am planning on reading it & it will be the first time in 3 or 4 years. You know, When I finishing reading his new book France/Norway, I place a order for a DVD name after his 1972 book, & When my order was lost. I look up his phone number & got his fax. I fax him a letter, telling him what happen. Four hours later, I got a call from Sir John Maxtone-Graham himself,& He sent 2 dvds of The Only Way To Cross, & a letter. He felt bad about my order being lost. Why 2? Well, He accidently shipped one of the DVD to my office address. So, I ended up with two, & I gave the second one to my very Best friend, Tony. I have read & heard say the word apocryphal, but I still stand by him. John used the word again, when disscussing about the name of Job #534, which we now know as the Queen Mary.
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Re: Gigantic

Postby Timothy Trower on Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:40 pm

Tyler,

This is almost a non-question. Harland & Wolff source documents say Britannic. Mark Chirnside (no slouch of a researcher) has delved deeply into this question, and he says Britannic. Simon Mills (who actually owns the blasted ship in question) says Britannic.

Maxtone-Graham himself acknowledged in print that the story of the Gigantic as a name was apocryphal, and since the preponderance of experts and researchers, not to mention the primary source material itself says Britannic, I think you need to back off of your hero worship just a tad.
All the best,

Tim

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Re: Gigantic

Postby Tom McCluskie on Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:38 am

Just as a footnote to my earlier comment regarding the possible use of Gigantic as the original name of Britannic it is not widely known that Titanic was originally to be named Megantic while Olympic originally was to be named Gargantic. Unfortunately for White Star and Harland and Wolff these proposed names were rejected by the Board of Trade as being too difficult to spell by dyslexic travel agents and accordingly the simpler versions were adopted for each vessel. :twisted:
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Re: Gigantic

Postby Karen Kamuda on Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:18 am

Simon is too modest to mention numerous exquisitely researched articles on a number of maritime subjects (including the Britannic/Gigantic question) he has written for the Titanic Commutator. When you are not a member of the THS (all of whom receive the quarterly journal) you are at a disadvantage in this forum. Simon, Tim and Tom are avid readers and/or experienced with a lifetime of working with maritime matters and/or shipbuilding which leaves those who are not, limited in their reply. As former Secretary of Education, Bill Bennett said, "Keep an open mind but not so open your brains fall out." ;)
Karen
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Re: Gigantic

Postby Parks Stephenson on Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:08 am

I have an e-mail from Simon Mills, dated 31 May 2008, where he offered up some closely-held research for his yet-to-be published book on Britannic. In that e-mail, he definitely states that when Olympic and Titanic were ordered, they were originally known as Lethargic and Bubonic.

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Re: Gigantic

Postby Tyler J Frederick on Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:11 pm

Forgive me Karen. I'm still new to the Titanic Historical Society. I do however of 2 Titanic Commutator Magazines. It's just that I thought the Gigantic thing was put to rest, but then, I read a book about the White Star Liner trio. Robert Ballard even said that the Gigantic was no myth. I know John Maxtone-graham used the word apocryphal, but again he used the word when he was discussing about the of job 534, which we all know is Queen Mary. When can I find the books from Simon Mills & Mark Chirnside? The interest in Ocean Liners. is so strong that I'm not sure when it come to the history of Ocean Liners which is fact & which is Fiction. All my books that I got from 1998 on said Britannic's original name was Gigantic. every single book that talks about the Britannic. Forgive me everything you can call me if you want, my cell should be on your records. Thank you.
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Re: Gigantic

Postby Simon Mills on Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:05 pm

Parks,

Lethargic and Bubonic? Funny thing is that I do vaguely recall sending that e-mail. Oh well, bang goes my credibility now! :o

S.
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Re: Gigantic

Postby Karen Kamuda on Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:29 pm

From the number of posts in this forum, Tyler, you have more time on your hands than I do. These are Titanic Commutators in the Museum Store. Do some checking around in the Museum Store and you'll find books by Simon Mills and Mark Chirnside. Here are three articles on Gigantic:

http://titanichistoricalsociety.net/sto ... cts_id=376
Titanic Commutator No. 3
[color=#FF0000]Wilton J Oldham explains misnomer Gigantic for Britannic.


http://titanichistoricalsociety.net/sto ... cts_id=555
Titanic Commutator No 178
Britannic or Gigantic––Titanic Mythbusters by Simon Mills.

http://titanichistoricalsociety.net/sto ... cts_id=557
Titanic Commutator No 180
The Gigantic Question by Mark Chirnside and Paul Lee
Two years before the Titanic disaster and immediately following, there were a number of newspaper and other references that mention Gigantic in connection with the third sister in the Olympic-class. Researchers have found the name to be an interesting study as new information is made available. In The Gigantic Question the authors intend to provide a substantial analysis of a number of sources and take advantage of new evidence offering one of the most detailed assessments to date that the name Gigantic seemed to be more widespread than is commonly believed.

Karen
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Re: Gigantic

Postby Tyler J Frederick on Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:02 pm

Thank you Karen. When I get around to it, I get them. right now I am pinching pennies. I'm on my own, & Have rent electic bills. Gorceries & stuff like that. Those 3 magzines are interesting though.
By the way, I had to write a apology note to Tim. I want you to know I get upset very easliy, but I will do better. I will also let you know that either Gigantic, or Britannic, I love the ship. I don't love her any less because she wasn't call Gigantic. I love all Ocean Liners. Thank you.

Tyler Frederick

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Re: Gigantic

Postby Daniel Díaz on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:32 pm

Hello , one Question the titanic commutator volumen 20 nº1 1996 I have that magazine ,On the cover is a great image of HMHS Britannic with numbering G618 What kind of key was that? thanks

Mr Mark chirnside I really like you Book Olympic , Titanic and Britannic its very interesting.

psd; sorry my english still hard for me.
Take to the sea.
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Re: Gigantic

Postby Jill Carlier on Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:17 am

I love when historians joke around :lol: thank you!
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Re: Gigantic

Postby Mark Chirnside on Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:31 pm

Daniel Díaz wrote:Mr Mark chirnside I really like you Book Olympic , Titanic and Britannic its very interesting.


Thanks Daniel! :)

Best wishes,

Mark.
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