Gigantic

Gigantic

Postby Tyler J Frederick on Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:47 pm

I don't mind the name Britannic, but What I like to know is why did White Star rename the the ship Britannic, instead of leaving first pick, GIGANTIC? To me, a name's a name. Britannic is fine a name, no doubt, but why not leave it Gigantic? Olympic, Titanic, Gigantic.
Tyler Joshua Frederick,
Cicero, Indiana
Tyler J Frederick
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:28 pm

Re: Gigantic

Postby Shannon Manning on Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:04 pm

Didn't White Star deny this???? I like the name Brittanic better anyway esp. with the fact that it eventually became a war boat.
Yours truly,
Shannon Manning
Shannon Manning
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:29 am
Location: Danville,Il USA-Smtitan074@aol.com

Re: Gigantic

Postby Mark Chirnside on Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:22 pm

The issue of a name for yard number 433 has been hotly debated for years.

Popular belief had it that she was intended to be named Gigantic, a plan which was changed after the loss of Titanic. I think this can be safely dismissed. The entry for this ship in the Harland & Wolff order book has only the name Britannic. The dimensions have been written in and subsequently amended, so that it can be shown they were recorded at least prior to October 1911. Edward Wilding stated that 'there is no name for twelve months', usually just a yard number, and certainly The Shipbuilder said in early April 1912 that the new ship had not been named. (This was not the case for Olympic and Titanic, whose names were confirmed early in 1908.)

It leaves the possibility that the name was left blank initially, then confirmed later as Britannic and written in alongside the yard number and specifications, but although that suggestion has been made there is no evidence that this was the case. In that sense, I think we have to follow the order book which only gives the name Britannic.

The name Gigantic first appeared in connection with 433 in July 1913. Newspaper reports appeared over the following months, giving the name of the new ship as Gigantic. The White Star Line do not appear to have made any public comment on the name, although it is known that J. Bruce Ismay had seen press reports and remarked that the ship’s dimensions (given as 1,000 feet long, for instance) were not accurate. Following the Titanic disaster, in May 1912 the Southampton Times reported that Ismay had denied that the company or its management had ever intended to call the new ship Gigantic; and at the end of the month the name Britannic was reserved. Meanwhile, the New York Times reported that the name had been selected. The application was renewed on June 1st 1913 and confirmed when she was launched the following year.

Certainly Gigantic was a pretentious name, but then the same was true of Titanic. They are certainly in keeping. By the time the third ship was laid down, it was clear she was no longer the going to be the world's largest; in that sense, Gigantic would no longer have been a logical choice in any event.

Simon Mills first published the H&W order book in the Commutator back in 2007; an article Paul Lee and I had been working on for some time followed shortly thereafter with some other material, including the chain and anchor order book from Noah Hingley and Sons which gave the name Gigantic at February 1912. Both fill in a lot of detail. It's far beyond the scope of this short posting.

Best wishes,

Mark.
Mark Chirnside's Reception Room:
http://www.markchirnside.co.uk
Mark Chirnside
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:52 pm

Re: Gigantic

Postby Ludwig Bader on Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:05 pm

Hi Marc,

thanks for your detailed explanation!

I've always been fascinated by the question "Gigantic or not", and meanwhile I do share your opinion that "Gigantic" never was the official name for No 433.

But I'm still mazed by this advertisement:
http://www.doubledeckerbuses.org/pastym ... gantic.jpg

It was also shown in Don Lynch / Ken Marschall: Titanic (1992).

Do you know anything about it? Is it a fake or a true hint?

All the best,

Ludwig
Ludwig Bader
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:11 pm
Location: Bavaria, Germany

Re: Gigantic

Postby Mark Chirnside on Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:14 pm

Good to see you, Ludwig.

Ludwig Bader wrote:I've always been fascinated by the question "Gigantic or not", and meanwhile I do share your opinion that "Gigantic" never was the official name for No 433.


You know, it is interesting that the name Britannic was not reserved until the end of May 1912. The equivilent information for Olympic and Titanic does not seem to be available, but their names were publicly announced before construction began or the agreement signed. Cunard had considered the name Olympia for Lusitania or Mauretania, so the White Star Line may have been pleased that their rival had not gone for that option!

Ludwig Bader wrote:But I'm still mazed by this advertisement:
http://www.doubledeckerbuses.org/pastym ... gantic.jpg

It was also shown in Don Lynch / Ken Marschall: Titanic (1992).

Do you know anything about it? Is it a fake or a true hint?


My recollection is that Mark Baber had identified it as something that was not produced by, or directly related to, the White Star Line.

Best wishes,

Mark.
Mark Chirnside's Reception Room:
http://www.markchirnside.co.uk
Mark Chirnside
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:52 pm

Re: Gigantic

Postby Ludwig Bader on Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:22 pm

Mark,

thanks again for the information! Didn't know about the "Olympia" plan of Cunard. Would have been quite a hit for White Star...

Hope you are fine, I'm looking forward to reading the new edition of your Olympic class book in summer :D

All the best,

Ludwig
Ludwig Bader
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:11 pm
Location: Bavaria, Germany

Re: Gigantic

Postby Mark Chirnside on Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:46 pm

Allow me to correct a typo earlier:

"The name Gigantic first appeared in connection with 433 in July 1911. Newspaper reports appeared over the following months, giving the name of the new ship as Gigantic."

I'm fine thanks, Ludwig. Keeping very busy.

I'm looking forward to reading the new edition of your Olympic class book in summer


Thanks for your kind comments, I appreciate them. I have added new material, photos and information, with the help of many generous people and organisations including the THS.

I hope you enjoy the book. I am proud of the original for a first effort, but there was lots of room for improvement. (As it might be said, rather crudely and perhaps uncharitably: 'You can't polish a t**d'. ;) )

Best wishes,

Mark.
Mark Chirnside's Reception Room:
http://www.markchirnside.co.uk
Mark Chirnside
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:52 pm

Re: Gigantic

Postby Tyler J Frederick on Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:41 pm

Mr. Mark Chrinside,
I don't if you got my earlier reply, but thank you for answering my question. I wanted that question answer for a long time. I think Gigantic was a myth made up by the press, & that White Star had the new ship name Britannic from the beginning. Thank you very much.
Tyler Joshua Frederick,
Cicero, Indiana
Tyler J Frederick
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:28 pm

Re: Gigantic

Postby Tyler J Frederick on Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:43 pm

I made if little mistake: I meant to write I don't know. forgive my typo.
Tyler J Frederick
Tyler J Frederick
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:28 pm

Re: Gigantic

Postby Jeremy Aufderheide on Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:16 am

I read a discussion elsewhere that suggested that the Olympic class were named after Greek mythology: Olympians, Titans and Giants.
Jeremy Aufderheide
 
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:38 pm

Re: Gigantic

Postby Mark Chirnside on Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:00 pm

Tyler J Frederick wrote: I don't if you got my earlier reply, but thank you for answering my question.


I didn't, Tyler, but I am glad you found it interesting. Thanks.

Best wishes,

Mark.
Mark Chirnside's Reception Room:
http://www.markchirnside.co.uk
Mark Chirnside
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:52 pm

Re: Gigantic

Postby Tyler J Frederick on Thu May 05, 2011 3:28 pm

When Titanic sank, why was there great fear around the Martime World, especially when it revolve Britannic? I don't know Fear, so, I don't understand. Thank you for whatever answer you give me.
Tyler
Tyler J Frederick
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:28 pm

Re: Gigantic

Postby Tyler J Frederick on Thu May 26, 2011 2:52 pm

Hey, I was readingTitanic: The Story Of The Great White Star Line Trio, Olympic, Titanic, & Britannic, I was reading a chapter on Britannic, & I found that Gigantic had been the intended name. I think White Star was hiding something. I'm not a fool. So my questions is Why did White Star change the name from Gigantic to Britannic, when Olympic, Titanic, & Gigantic all mean size, speed, comfort & safety? The 2nd is why did White Star's order book in 1911 only had Britannic? Can you please explian to me?
T. Joshua Frederick
Tyler J Frederick
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:28 pm

Re: Gigantic

Postby Timothy Trower on Thu May 26, 2011 7:50 pm

Tyler,

I'd suggest that you reread Mark Chirnside's above post dealing with the Gigantic/Britannic naming controversy.
All the best,

Tim

THSMB Admin -- timtrower@NOSPAMtitanichistoricalsociety.net (just remove the NOSPAM before sending an email).
Timothy Trower
 
Posts: 744
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:45 pm
Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA

Re: Gigantic

Postby Simon Mills on Fri May 27, 2011 5:47 am

Tyler,

There are a lot of very unreliable books on the market when it comes to things Titanic, but the bottom line is that all of the available Harland and Wolff source documentation, which is now held at the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI), quite clearly shows that when Yard no. 433 was contracted for on 23rd October 1911, the name associated with the vessel was quite definitely Britannic, and not Gigantic. Other than hearsay, there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the vessel was ever supposed to be called Gigantic. It is undeniably an attractive story, but the simple truth is that the Gigantic legend is now largely seen as little more than one of the many Titanic myths.

For a more detailed summary, along with images from some of the Harland and Wolff record books, please see Titanic Commutator vol. 31, no. 178. (2007), pages 74-76.

SM.
Simon Mills
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:05 am

Re: Gigantic

Postby Joshua Milford on Fri May 27, 2011 12:32 pm

Simon,

Where did the famous "Gigantic" poster come from?

Image


Please take a look at my new Britannic topic "Britannic Specs"
-Joshua Milford
Titanic Historian

The White Star Line and the RMS Titanic
http://www.jmilfordrmstitanic.com
Joshua Milford
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:32 pm
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Re: Gigantic

Postby Simon Mills on Fri May 27, 2011 12:46 pm

Joshua,

The origin of the poster that you illustrate is extremely vague, but it is quite certain that it was not a piece of official White Star Line publicity. Nor did it have anything to do with Harland and Wolff. What is certain is that as of October 1911, the only name in the available Harland and Wolff records is Britannic. None of the documents at PRONI record any name changes even after the vessel had been ordered, which was almost six months before the Titanic went down.

SM.
Simon Mills
 
Posts: 153
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:05 am

Re: Gigantic

Postby Joshua Milford on Fri May 27, 2011 12:54 pm

That's very interesting. I'm going to have to change some facts on my website.
Thank You Simon!
-Joshua Milford
Titanic Historian

The White Star Line and the RMS Titanic
http://www.jmilfordrmstitanic.com
Joshua Milford
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:32 pm
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Re: Gigantic

Postby Tyler J Frederick on Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:50 pm

Yesterday, I got a email from the Fame author John Maxtone-Graham. He said that White Star did in fact did intend to name the ship Gigantic. But after Titanic went down, White Star felt that leaving the ship's name as is was just asking for another accident. So, the White Star change the name to a more patriotic Britannic. I won't discredit anything he says. I like- no- love his work, & his word is law. His word is high in value. He research the White Star Line too, & found that White Star had originally name the 3rd Liner Gigantic. I may be a big fan of Cunard & White Star Lines, but I knew White Star was hiding something, & Sir John Maxtone-Graham brought it to light. Thanks to him, I am no longer in the dark about White Star's escapades. T. Joshua Frederick
Tyler J Frederick
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:28 pm

Re: Gigantic

Postby Michael H Standart on Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:51 pm

I like- no- love his work, & his word is law.
With respect to John Maxtone-Graham, his word is NOT law. Not by a long short. He's done some important work, and I would think long and hard before challanging the man, but he is not inspired inerrent, and I think he would be the first to explain that.

No researcher, however well learned and talanted...which he unquestionably is...is immune from making mistakes.

His stand on the Britannic's naming as Gigantic, a name which finds no real support in any primary source, is most likely one of them.
Michael H Standart
 
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:28 pm

Next

Return to Britannic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron